Joe Rogan Experience - Robert Malone, MD & PsyWar Robert W. Malone, MD, MS, is a virologist and immunologist and an original inventor of mRNA delivery and vaccination as a technology. He serves on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices and is the author of multiple books, the most recent of which is “PsyWar: Enforcing the New World Order,” co-written with his wife, Dr. Jill Glasspool Malone.

Well, thanks. I know you’ve said that on a few shows. Every time you do, somebody sends me a clip and sees, „Hey, Rogan said you did the right thing.“

What was it like for you? First of all,

uh, you know, they were trying to label you a quack and a k and didn’t know what they were talking about.

It didn’t I don’t think it worked with everybody. I mean, it worked with people that weren’t paying attention,

but anybody that really paid attention to your background said, „No, this guy’s very credible.“ I mean, don’t you have

like nine patents on mRNA vaccine technology?

Yeah, on the mRNA. Yeah. And total of about 15, I think.

Yeah. And you also took the vaccine and had a horrible adverse event, a series of them. Yeah. Yeah.

That that at the time it was so early.

That was when the National Guard was still doing it and that was Madna. And um the I was embarrassed uh by to have these experiences.

Um and I was embarrassed when I got COVID in early 2020. Um, you know, looking back,

uh, there was so much so much fear, um, so much,

uh,

anger and anxiety and everything wrapped around all of this.

And in retrospect, it was, you know, it was promoted, but it was also very organic. uh you know it was it was

you know looking back being honest about it it was a frightening time what was happening and um

and yeah I I you know I had those experiences uh my uh doc who was a cardiologist was like why were you so

stupid to take this uh your doctor said that too in 2021 yeah um she was 2020 or 20 what

it was 2021 2021 one. Yeah. Um I was going to a kind

of a a cardiologist that had left um traditional medical practice at uh UVA

and the associated um hospitals and I was going to her for uh hormone replacement therapy and uh bioidentical

hormone replacement therapy and um she was monitoring a lot of things and and um yeah that was her response. Why did you do this? Of course, I’ve had that

question a thousand times since, you know, why were you so stupid? You were the one that should have known. Um, and so I have to answer that still. It’s

kind of gets a little tiresome. But what was your perspective on the vaccine before you took it?

Um,

to be honest, I I was a little I was amazed.

Uh I was amazed that the that the claims that the problems that I encountered when I had been working on it had been

solved. Uh I didn’t see how that could be the case, but I knew that a huge amount of money had been thrown at it. So it was possible.

What were the problems?

Uh in my hands it was inflammation primarily. It was also you the it was absolutely not localizable.

uh it was in in the monkey models that we tested it was incredibly inflammatory. It didn’t give long um

levels long prolonged levels of expression. It was hard to make. It was kind of back then it was uh a almost a

little bit of witchcraft. You’d drop I mean for me as a graduate student when I was doing that it was incredibly scary because it was a couple thousand dollars worth of reagents in a little tiny tube.

And you know, back in the late 80s, that was real money. And uh and it didn’t always work the reaction. So, you know,

it was it was a little bit of a wing in a prayer. Uh but then um as I started working with with animal models and with

the different formulations, I could come up with a variety of different compounds and formulations that worked pretty well

in cell culture, but not so well in animals.

And uh I spent a lot of time trying to do that, optimize that. And what I ended up with is just seeing that it it really

caused, you know, I’m sorry to use medical jargon. I’m that’s kind of where I’m from. So that’s the language.

No, it’s probably better if you it caused a lot of inflammation. Uh you know, white cell infiltrates, really

aggressive white cell infiltrates in my hands in both mice and monkeys. And I’d abandoned it as as something that just

uh you know was was useful in in research in particularly in cell culture, but I just didn’t see it

maturing as a as an efficient delivery strategy with uh low risk, you know,

acceptable risk in animals. And that also became the experience in uh at this

company that I had first joined where a lot of the original patents were filed VCL. Uh they they abandoned the RNA

because they couldn’t make it. uh and uh they turned largely to this strange

discovery that we had that was a negative control that the RNA alone or

DNA alone was actually more effective in animal models, mice for instance, than

it was uh to use the positively charged fats. This now people call them lipid

nanoplexes. Lots of fancy words around it. It was just positively charged fats of various types that were mixed that

bind the DNA or the RNA and and kind of spontaneously assemble.

And a lot of work went into trying to improve that. We did what we could in the 90s when I was at Davis to try to

advance that technology and develop new lipids. And we had a number of them get patented and they were marketed by Promega and others but uh could never

solve the uh delivery in vivo. But this group up in University of British Columbia that had been banging away at

this kind of related liposome tech for years and years even before you know I had known anything about it. uh were the

ones that’s kind of came up with the magic sauce that uh is used essentially

by both the Madna and Fizer products and that’s the stuff that we’ve all been um exposed to those that have taken it. So

when you were first experimenting you said the it couldn’t be localized. So meaning that in the injection site it was supposed to be there and then your

body was supposed to produce antibodies because of the injection.

Yeah. And it goes all over but it went all over the body. It does.

But the assertion what they were telling you when you got the shot initially was that it was not going to leave the injection site.

Yeah. And I and I called uh my colleagues uh um at University of British Columbia that I had known back

in the day uh as I was um grappling with whether or not to take the product because I had to travel. And as you

recall back then, forget international travel if you weren’t jabbed.

Even national travel. Yeah. You couldn’t get on an airplane.

But in Canada, it was even worse. You couldn’t get on a train. Um Yeah. So, so

I called uh uh Peter and and had a chat with him and he said that they had solved the problems of the distribution

that now when you injected it, it would stay local. It would go to the draining lymph nodes. Uh it was much more effective and that they didn’t have

those safety issues anymore. So, that was one of the reasons why I decided to go ahead.

Did you ask how they solved that problem?

Yeah. Yeah, I I asked in detail because I knew some of the nature of the formulations. Again, I don’t want to get

too technical, but uh what what was claimed was that the incorporation of

polyethylene glycol uh so this is you know you would know that as antifreeze.

Uh but it’s in the liposome world. It’s long been known as a way to create what are known as stealth liposomes that

circulate in your body for a long period of time and make it so that these particles don’t get inactivated by

extracellular proteins and the liver and stuff like that. And so uh he was using uh the the gentleman in particular is

named Peter Cullis. By the way, he’s the one that should have got the Nobel Prize for these products as far as I’m concerned uh and um got slided in the

pick. But Peter Cullis said that he had uh they had experimented with a lot of different structures of the fat

particles, chemical structures. So they came up with some that had these properties of staying localized and then

built the formulations in ways that were similar to what I’d done uh with cholesterol and other things, but then

also added these uh shorter polyethylene glycol molecules attached with a really

short organic, you could call it fat or or gasoline like molecule uh that that

put the PEG into the liposome particle And but it in a way that once it got

into the body it would fall off. And so this is you know some people have the sensation as I did with my second jab of

you know you get it and then suddenly you feel tingling in the end of your fingers or things like that that may be the peg. But it was those advances in

the components because this these are self-assembling particles uh that were

used that um Peter uh and his group Peter Mclla uh no Peter Cullis uh pie t

okay uh from UBC and his group um built these products with uh this technology and

that was they they had it available uh um the their choice because they created

companies for this. I mean a ton of money must have been made uh because they licensed it non-exclusively

to biioentech and madna and uh that that’s still kind of the core tech that

makes this particular category of products work. And so this

was enough to convince you that they had solved that problem. Yeah, I took his word at it. I mean, he’s he’s an extremely uh experienced, knowledgeable

uh liposome formulation expert, quite senior. He’s older than me by another decade at least, and been doing this

forever. Uh and he asserted that he had he had solved the problems and I believed him. I needed to travel internationally.

And also there was this buzz going around at the time that uh if you had long co which at you know at the time if

you think back to then uh there was a whole cloud over even using the words long co that the idea that you would

have these longlasting effects from getting the infection was controversial and not really

accepted but partially promoted. And there was a narrative that was, you know, in retrospect actively promoted

that if you took the vaccines and you and if you had this symptom of this chronic malaise uh and uh loss of

stamina, I mean, you’re a guy that’s it’s important to you to be physically fit. For me, it’s been important to be physically fit all my life because I’ve

always been a farmer and a carpenter and and worked with my hands and my body.

And I have farm chores. I still have farm chores every day. And I couldn’t do them. I couldn’t walk up hills. I just

had lost my stamina. I’d lost my pulmonary function. And it wasn’t getting better. And nobody, you know,

nobody knew anything about this, what was causing it, whether it was even real. But I was experiencing it. Uh, you know, there’s there’s a whole cluster of

people who say there’s no virus and there’s certainly not any long co, but I I experienced it. So,

and so it was it was promoted that if you took the jab and you had this symptom. Yeah.

Then it would kick your immune system up,

you get more of a response to the spike antigen and that would allow you to clear these symptoms of longco. It turns

out now we have data in just fairly recently that in fact the opposite is true.

So this this idea of long co so you got long co from the actual infection of co 19 before the jab.

Yeah I got infected in uh late very end of February 2020. I was in Boston at a

uh conference on drug discovery,

computational drug discovery, high throughput stuff, um very high-tech,

MIT, and staying in a little firehouse that had been converted to a hotel right across the street from the biotech

company where that the initial Boston outbreak was associated with. And I came home sick as a dog. I thought that I had

uh influenza B because I was the what the narrative was that was circulating at the time. And uh I was just I

remember laying in bed just feeling sick as hell. Uh hard to breathe. And my wife came in. It’s just been on the TV. Uh

um CO is circulating right there in Boston where you were. Uh so so that was

that was pretty early on and it hit me pretty hard. So that would have been um the uh Wuhan one variant and then there

was a couple of of uh genetic changes that occurred apparently in Boston around that time.

So how long did this affect you this this long co I was I was sick until I took the jab.

Um, you know, just not not having stamina, just feeling uh How many months was that?

I I had never even thought about it. Many months. Yeah.

And did you try anything else to mitigate those symptoms?

Yeah, I did. So, uh um what my whole story, you know, there’s a whole bunch of what I did back then that never gets

discussed and that’s okay. But uh I you know the kickoff was that I got this call from Wuhan. I think it was for

Wuhan from this guy that uh used to be CIA named Michael Callahan uh who I’d worked with in the past and

had told me he told me with call that there was this virus in Wuhan, this Corona virus that looked like it was

going to be serious and I ought to pay attention to it and I ought to get a team wound up to try to address this. So

what I’d done because this is coming off of what I did in Zika and I’m a vaccinologist at core uh but um

developing a vaccine in the face of an outbreak historically has taken a decade and uh

it just isn’t a practical way to address an emergent infectious disease crisis and I had become convinced that the best

way to do that was through repurposed drugs.

So after I get this call, I put the team together um building on the technology that I’d been working with at USMRAD

during Zika for uh rapid identification of uh

of repurposed drugs uh to address a you know new crisis and uh this time we’d really taken a computational approach.

So I used some tech out of UC San Francisco to recreate one of the key proteins in uh in SARS Kobe 2 based on

the sequence that got published from Wuhan in this January 11th I think and

of 2020 and uh um we started doing what’s called computational docking of

very very large uh virtual libraries using uh Amazon AWS and and high

throughput parallel processing and came up with a list of compounds and uh then kind of screen those against uh

problems, adverse events, um that kind of stuff. Uh more coffee. Good.

Uh I would thank you. And um so I had this list I had I had this list

of compounds and then I was sick as a dog. And you know what you get trained in if you do clinical research is docs don’t um experiment on themselves.

That’s like breaking the rules.

But I’m lying there so sick that I’m just like what the hell? What do I got to lose? I’m probably going to die. You know, I I at that point I’d spent a lot

of time already looking into the virus and what it was causing and what people were saying it was causing. And how old were you at the time?

Um, let’s see. I’m 66 now. So, 60 61. Yeah. So, you were in a high-risisk group.

Yeah, for sure. And and I was obese. I don’t know if you noticed, but I’ve dropped about 40 to 50 pounds since we last met.

So uh so I started taking some of those compounds and one of them was uh this

drug that is normally taken for stomach acid called famodine and uh I got an immediate response with

that and uh so I also tried isocoretin that didn’t seem to make so much of an

impact on me but I experimented on myself and the fomadine at higher doses is um now it’s been verified to be

helpful and it was one of the first things out of the box that people started taking um even prophylactically before we knew about uh ivormectin and

other things and then that went on I mean there’s a whole thread here we could go on for an hour about about what was done with the repurposed drugs I was

working closely with defense reduction agency um and uh um I managed to capture a few hundred

million dollars uh and direct that towards uh drug repurposing um adaptive clinical trials

etc. And uh the thing that I zoomed in on through a collaboration with a doc up

in uh Minnesota was the combination of famodine, another

anti-inflammatory called celoxib and then the thing that really kicked it in high gear was the forbidden horse medicine uh ivormectin.

And uh we got I managed to working with DoD got um over $und00 million uh set up

a contract uh um it got managed by SIC and uh we were going to go after that

using a very cutting edge clinical trial um design and uh and remember this is the DoD.

We submitted initial drug applications for using this combination of licensed

drugs, well-known licensed drugs, and the FDA just dug in um again and again rejected the application.

So long what they said was we were going to have to do cell culture tests to demonstrate the antiviral activity of

ivormectin before they would allow us to proceed.

uh and so in the end the DoD caved and they dropped the ivormectin component and proceeded with the uh fomodine and ciloxip which showed some effect.

Why were they so hesitant or what was the resistance?

I your your guess is as good as mine. I really people think that I have visibility into the FDA and yeah I’ve met with them and I have a background in

regulatory affairs but the policy decisions that were made during co uh and still to this day are perplexing

particular Ivormect then oh it was it was uh like a high sin they they deployed

uh what do we want to call it propaganda psychological warfare nudge everything just like they did after you and I had

our little discussion. Um it was it was stunning. I mean the the like after we had our chat uh um I don’t know if you

remember you asked me about what is this about mass formation psychosis. Yeah.

And it I mean they use the term broke the internet is overused. It broke the internet.

Yeah. Uh the search results on Google went nuts and uh well because it perfectly described what was happening.

Oh. And couldn’t be it. No, it couldn’t possibly describe what was happening.

Even though every single person that heard it knew damn well it did, but it was forbidden. I mean, this was forbidden because for people who didn’t hear our first

discussion, please explain mass formation psychosis.

So since then, I’ve had a a [ __ ] storm come at me for using the term psychosis coupled with mass formation. You can’t,

you know, the the grief. You think you got a lot of grief from Spotify and from uh Spotify was actually great. I had no grief from them. It was from like Neil

Young and Joanie Mitchell and oh artists.

So you pro then you probably don’t know the whole backstory.

Okay. Um that’s we should that’s fun to dive into because it relates to the psychological warfare domain that now

I’ve become a pseudo expert on um just in trying to understand what the hell I experienced and what’s going on. So, so

Matias Desmat who’s a friend um at University of Gent in Belgium, who by the way has been pretty well railroaded

in his university now, not allowed to teach his own book on the psychological basis of totalitarianism where which is where that book had not come out yet,

but it was uh the mass formation hypothesis is what was the kind of core of that book that’s now published and

and widely regarded. Uh so so Matias uh came Matias is somebody who uh

as a PhD full professor had long taught uh 20th century

uh uh psychology work relating to totalitarianism and thought uh that goes

back to Freud and beyond really all the way back to Plato and the allegory of the cave. And in particular there was a

number of of philosophers in the 20th century associated with uh trying to make sense of Nazi Germany and what had

happened to the German people and really all over the world uh but particularly relating to the Germans and Matias had

been teaching this on a regular basis and the way he tells the story he had an epiphany one day that oh my god the

thing that I’ve been teaching I’m living it we’re experiencing it. We’re experiencing this process of the formation of masses.

Um, and the the you could call it crowd psychology. So mass formation, it’s kind of awkward or mass formation psychosis,

which is what the term was that was used in the initial podcast that he gave out.

So that’s why I use that term. uh but you know it’s not in the the the attack was that it’s not in the diagnostics and

statistical manual uh for the American Psychiatric Association so therefore it doesn’t exist uh um uh but you know all

the attacks uh but um the core of it is that when people to make it simple

become disassociated from society and from each other they become extremely vulnerable to manipulation of a variety

of different types. And a leader can come into that environment

and uh offer let’s to simplify it um offer a solution to their pain because

being isolated socially isolated is associated with pain. We as human beings have a need to connect with others. It’s a fundamental aspect of being human.

It’s what you do. I mean you connect.

That’s that’s the essence of the Joe Rogan experience, I think. Um, so we need to connect with others and in in

certain situations where people are threatened. Um, and in particular in the modern era where we have all of these things that drive us into isolation,

most notably our electronic tools.

Uh, we become disassociated from our community. And when that happens, we have a strong need to become associated

with community. And a and a leader can come into that environment and basically say, I have the solution to your pain,

your psychological pain. And uh what will happen is a strange phenomena where

people will rather than building social networks let’s say horizontally to those around them they’ll attach to this

strong leader and they’ll get that they’ll get fulfillment for that need to belong by

this attach attachment to that leader and following the edicts of that leader and this leads to this phenomena that

gives rise is you know enables totalitarianism but uh gives rise to this whole cluster

of things that mystus described uh that um you know he he uses the term

mass formation in a way that’s kind of an odd artifact of translation I guess from the Dutch uh it’s an easier way to

think of it is a crowd formation um and uh

And in his uh examination of the history of what happened in Nazi Germany where

things were people really went crazy. I mean mothers were turning their children in uh you know children were being

executed on the on you know consequent to mother’s testimony which is really strange when you think about it just you know in a fundamental way. uh you know,

we had all of this uh dear leader kind of stuff. uh the the um uh linkage of of

the self and the soul to this central figure and deriving a sense of identity

and belonging from that that went on and and you know there’s still uh people

from that generation in Germany that um are still caught up in in a lot of that.

that’s why the German laws. Uh and um so that’s that’s that’s the short version.

When we spoke before, I gave a much more technical precise uh definition of Matias’s uh core thesis.

Uh but um this once this happens then people become very very easily manipulated

through propaganda and a variety of techniques that now I have a better comprehension of. I mean then I was

still just trying to make sense just like all of us of what the heck was going on? What’s with this crazy? uh but

now uh it’s kind of coalesed into an understanding of of the fact that uh modern psychology has been weaponized.

It’s been intentionally weaponized in the context of military activities in the domain that you know one way to

express it. The term is used kind of term of art in military jargon is fifth generation warfare or you could call it

psychological warfare. And what it distinguishes the present from say uh

Sunzu and you know ancient propaganda has always been part of warfare in humans but uh we haven’t had the digital

world we haven’t had modern psychology we haven’t had nudge technology we

haven’t had all these tools that allow the control of information thought um

perception feelings, emotions,

uh that have become common place and that you know is is and has has you know

this this suite of technology and capabilities that we saw deployed in all of us were uh built in a kind of a

structured way largely by UK and US leadership in the intelligence community

as a weapon of war to counter her these uh successful insurgencies that we keep

losing wars over uh you know Vietnam being a notable example all the way through Afghanistan

and uh um so that that’s why it was built uh but then that tech um got

deployed by governments against their own citizens and this was really launched uh in large part uh in the

United States by a presidential directive from Barack Obama. I’m not making this up. Uh you can look it up.

And by the way, the presidential directive is still in place that establish the uh um nudge technology

units in the United States. They’re already operating in the UK. And in the UK, it’s quite advanced. When you look at UK politics right now and what’s going on there with all the censorship

and everything, you know, this is no joke. We’re we’re barreling right to that end point. same as Canada has uh

you know we’re just a little bit behind and uh there they you know we have the benefit of the first amendment in a

constitution and um you know often on courts but uh there they they don’t have those

obstacles and the government believes in the UK that once they have won an election it’s perfectly acceptable to

deploy this modern psychology and information control technology on their own population. And I argue that once

that Rubicon is crossed, the idea of democracy because the tech is so powerful becomes completely perverted.

And we got a good hard taste of that during co. what what you and I experienced, what you experienced with

Ivormectin, what you experienced with uh you know just talking about your own experiences

uh and the blowback that happened after we did that little hit. uh um

is is a super powerful clear case study in understanding

this intersection of modern psychology uh warfare technology and uh the digital

world uh and and algorithmic control of information. the uh creation of digital

avi a avatars for all of us. The application now in the present of artificial intelligence to custom craft

uh messaging uh that gets fed into our digital domains on a regular basis in order to you know sell us whatever.

uh but also to shape how we think and uh to control what information we get

access to all the time. Just to give an example, my wife who does a lot of our research for our Substack was talking to

me the other day. She she just gave me a couple examples where uh um stories that

were in corporate media in the United States that weren’t listing certain key names or whatever. Um she said, „I just

go to the Hindust Times.“ Hindust Times is a great source for all the stuff that we’re not allowed to see here in the United States. You’re now in a in an

environment in an information environment where you cannot um uh rely on but we all know that you

can’t rely on corporate media but the but the the rules the boundaries that are being set up about information are

profound and they’re completely distorting our ability to uh process what’s happening around us. Can I give you the example of what actually

happened? you you said in in our example with the blowback in Spotify, this is

documented by a a report out um from the House about CO and what happened and

that report only carries just through to the early part of the vaccines and then it stops. They for some reason they didn’t really want to go down the road

to the vaccines. They did talk a lot about the um events around uh the let’s

say lab leak hypothesis uh which is allowed. You’re you’re allowed in DC now to talk about that finally.

Yeah. You’re still well and it was about four years later you were allowed.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um uh so what was documented was that uh the the trail of events

was that we had our discussion that triggered, and this is going to sound bizarre, but this is what’s

documented, that triggered CocaCola Corporation to complain to the Global Alliance for

Responsible Media, which is created by the World Economic Forum. It is one of these global aggregators that controls advertising.

the Global Alliance for Responsible Media, which by the way had it dust up with uh Elon Musk and lost and they

closed it down as a nonprofit. It still exists in other ways, but as a structure

that could be sued by X, it disappeared when he stood up against it. But Global

Alliance for Responsible Media had a socket with Google AdSense, by the way.

So they control the advertising ecosystem which kind of matters to Spotify.

So Coca-Cola complains to Garm saying this guy Rogan, you got to shut him down. Okay, you got to put pressure on Spotify.

So Spotify gets the message from Garm that we’re going to we’re threatening to pull your advertising. Okay. Now what

happens between that and your experience? I don’t know. you know, it’s not transparent to me what you experienced. Uh, yeah, we all remember

the um Laurel Canyon crowd saying they were going to pull their Cadillacs, which they didn’t actually own, right?

That was that was another thing. And then they they went after you uh with this uh mashup of nword uh historic uh

events. Um, you know, there was clearly a concerted effort to take out Joe Rogan,

uh, much more than to take out Robert Malone. And, uh, so then the question comes, why the heck would CocaCola

be the socket with the Global Alliance for Respons, one of the biggest advertisers in the world, right? Why Coca-Cola give a hoie about what Joan

Rogan said to Robert Malone on, you know, New Year’s Eve? Uh,

Coca-Cola is really tight with the CDC.

Coca-Cola has funded buildings at the CDC. Coca-Cola funds the um CDC

Foundation, Foundation for the CDC, as does Bill and Meinda Gates, as done all the major vaccine manufacturers, etc.,

etc. The appearance is, I can’t verify this, that CDC acted through its ally Coca-Cola. Why

are they allies? What’s Coca-Cola got to do with CDC? The angle there is that Coca-Cola wanted the CDC to get uh WHO

to not implement restrictions and messaging about sugar use. Okay? They didn’t want those messages.

Remember, this is at the heart of the inverted food triangle. Now, the the old food triangle was the product of sugar

lobby. I mean, the sugar lobby is incredibly powerful because this stuff is addictive. I mean, it’s it’s like having the cocaine lobby, right? Well,

and you know, that’s an interesting uh analogy because of course the history of Coca-Cola, right?

Uh but um so sugar’s addictive. uh the the CDC the Coca-Cola didn’t want the CD

wanted the CDC to influence public health policy to avoid um uh global

positions on the risks associated with sugar intake because it would potentially hurt their market share. You know, they’re a major globalized

company. So that’s that little ecosystem that I just described illustrates what we’re dealing with here and the many

ways that um all of this kind of influence and messaging and signaling

happens in this kind of integrated horizontally and vertically ecosystem that we live in right now. And one of the things that came out of that, you’ll

recall, was that you were asked, as I recall, you you gave this, you know, I‘

I’ve had a hostage video. I think that was a close to a hostage video from you back in the day when you were saying,

„This is what I’m going to do.“ Uh, it was like out on your porch or something.

Um, I remember I was sitting around a campfire in Maui, quite literally, when somebody said, „No, did you just see this from Rogan?“ And uh a matter of

fact, I was sitting around Gavin Debecker’s uh campfire at that time,

somebody that you know. And uh so um the compromise was that there would be a little trailer put at the bottom of that

episode. And by the way, you probably know that episode for a long time became very hard to find. Uh it was it was basically blacklisted from the search

engines, etc., etc. But you it carries and I I think it still does that little banner that says you know you should go to the CDC if you want the true true

about co and you can still find that those kinds of banners popping up all the time on YouTube

if you if you talk about vaccines or co vaccines that will get if if you pass the filters if if YouTube will allow

that to still be up um because you didn’t say something whatever it is uh then you’ll get the little banner. Okay,

that banner is pushed out by the nudge units at the CDC. Okay, that is nudge technology.

It is all around us all the time and it’s it’s basically still uh public

policy consequent to the old Obama presidential directive that still hasn’t been rescended. Uh, you know, I love

President Trump. I think he’s doing amazing things. I think he’s amazingly brave. Uh, I just mentioned our friend Gavin Debecker referred to Trump the other day when I saw Gavin in in uh,

Maui as a once- in 500y year leader. And that’s that’s not that’s not nothing

coming from Gavin. And uh so I’m I’m a big supporter, but the president has still left in place this mechanism that

exists uh that directs the federal government to use nudge technology and related uh what I assert is

psychological warfare technology on the American populace.

Right. This is from back in what was it 201 15 or something like that.

Yeah, it’s it’s quite early. Um, and then you had his you had Obama’s subsequent like the notorious speech at

Hoover at Stanford where he talks about in order to preserve democracy, we’re going to have basically says we’re going to have to have censorship,

right?

Uh, in order to preserve democracy or whatever democracy is,

for people that don’t know what we’re talking about, we’re relating to the Smith Munt Act.

The Smith Munt, everybody focuses on Smith Mut. Um but as I examined Smith and we did an essay on this in the

Substack um you know like three years ago because that was the kind of the narrative that was coming out in let’s

say our side of alternative media right and uh in my examination Smith’s impact

is a lot more limited. It has to do with Voice of America and some of those things. the broad impact wasn’t quite in

my opinion what was believed to be of of enabling propaganda domestically.

More specifically, um there is a presidential directive that nudge technology that established a

nudge office that nudge technology shall be used.

They don’t call they don’t call it a nudge office, right?

They they I don’t know. It’s it’s got they’ve they’ve gone through various iterations and I’m sorry I don’t have the latest version and it’s kind of become decentralized.

It was called the social and behavioral science team. Uh Wikipedia says that that was stopped in 2017 but continued

under the Trump administration under sorry uh the general services administration’s office of evaluation science.

There we go. Yeah. Boy. Yeah.

Yeah. It’s and it’s kind of become it’s been like I said it’s been pushed out into a lot of the agencies.

Um they don’t use that that lexicon because then it’s easy to find them, right?

They use there’s other euphemisms they use uh to describe those kinds of activities, but it’s become normalized.

The the weaponization of propaganda has become normalized. There’s the wording from overall behavioral interventions or

nudges like the ones implemented by OES have been found to be effective in recent psychological science article.

Researchers identified several policy areas of interest. Example, healthcare.

Here we go. 2015 is when it was implemented.

So 2015 President Obama signs an exe executive order requiring federal agencies to incorporate behavioral insights into their evaluation efforts.

That’s a nice way of saying the use of propaganda on the American people. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. And so this this has kind of become Thank you so much for for pulling that up. That’s super

helpful. So, um, this this is like I said, if I can illustrate, I was on a

Great Britain News broadcast about four years ago. Uh, at the time when they would, you know, I was, there was a

window of time where they would have me on, but it was sketchy. Um, and GBN News was the only one that would do it. And

uh but the rules were then that if you were going to have somebody that was speaking against the government narrative, then you had to have somebody

representing the government’s interests in the same broadcast.

So that’s uh implemented by basically the UK has an active censorship organization that controls news media.

And uh so I’m on with this guy, Great Britain News, pinstripe, bow tie, you know, it just uh reeks. And um and I’m

talking about psychological warfare and uh the 77th Brigade which is part of the British Army which is their uh

psychological warfare unit. It’s very open uh that that’s the case. uh as is

the existence of of uh um a civilian branch that they set up and paid people

to do social media in opposition of counternarratives uh that the government didn’t approve

of. I mean now they just underarm they just censor you and send you to jail.

Uh they they just cut cut out the middleman. Yeah.

Uh but back then they were still uh kind of buying civilians. And so I’m talking about this and uh that’s that the the

guy says yeah but here in the UK um our belief is that if the government wins the election they have the right to

govern and that right to govern includes our ability to use this type of technology and we believe that it’s

justified to do so and that when that conversation happened frankly I hadn’t we hadn’t launched the book yet cy which

is our most recent publication and uh and it just kind of all coalesed in my mind that oh my god what all these

things Matias’s teaching about mass formation what I saw what I experienced with you what I experienced with the

concerted attacks of the media um and then subsequently it’s been validated by this congressional report that talks

about for instance the juror ticket system juror tickets are are what it’s a system that all the software companies

use to track uh glitches and uh complaints and stuff like that. Well,

the government had their own juret system set up to log um information

about activities of persons that they wanted to have censored and suppressed and they would build these juro tickets

with information. And so, one of the things that’s out in the congressional report was that I actually had a juror ticket. I was surprised that this is the

case or not surprised in retrospect. Uh and and my personal sins were that I was

listed as an antivaxer and a conservative even though you’re a vaccinologist and a conservative. That’s interesting. And a

conservative conservative. Yeah. Exactly right. I mean, the stuff that’s coming out That’s wild. It’s it’s fascinating to

query things like Grock even Grock um uh

um about uh certain subjects and and you will find where they have

algorithmically built firewalls and and you can you can approach them and detect them because um it will it

will act dumb you know it’ll lock up seemingly it won’t give you that answer or it’ll talk around the issue etc etc.

You can identify these things that have been built in algorithmically and of course then we we had all of the

disclosures the Zuckerberg uh oh I’m so sorry uh apology tour that happened

remember when basically he got outed by Congress and and the rest of the tech bros. Uh, and of course the thing that catalyzed all of that was that Elon

decided to pony up a good chunk of change and buy by buy Twitter,

which I think is one of the most impactful decisions that any American citizen has ever made. Amazing.

If he didn’t do that, I think we would be really screwed. Uh, there’s How How can you debate that?

How can you debate it when you look at the Twitter files and you find out how much the government was involved in censoring accurate information from

legitimate professors, esteemed researchers, anybody who didn’t go along with the official narrative.

It’s it’s all coming out now in spades and and we’re dealing now. The lovely thing about all of this, I mean, let’s

let’s try to it is morning in America in my opinion. I mean, a lot of people get very dark and and there’s a darkness to

the times, but there’s, you know, not to push the metaphor too far, but there

there is um new light coming in and the fact that we can now see this and we recognize that you and I are very

similar generation. I mean, one of my earliest memories was the assassination of the president and all of the

propaganda around that, the propaganda around Vietnam War. Ever since, we’ve just been swimming in information

control that’s gotten increasingly sophisticated.

And uh fortunately as Americans, we also kind of have become more and more immune

to marketing and propaganda over time because we’ve been living with it.

Trying to discern what is real and what is, you know, false. Again, this is if it’s a core part of what you do for a

living, I think, is is just try to, you know, have conversations with people get to the bottom of the [ __ ] uh but um

that we’ve we’ve been swimming in it and now we can see it. We can see the the

structures the you know the the power of artificial intelligence and influence mapping and all the things that are

going on the internet right now that are the cutting cutting edge technology.

They’re scary because they could be weaponized against us, but they’re also super cool because we can now see those

relationships. If you want an example of that, look at the the threads that are coming out on X uh illuminating the uh

networks of affiliation associated with this latest Epstein file release. Just mind-blowing.

Mind-blowing. Uh and and it is just just like you know we can we can sit here and [ __ ] and whine saying oh they didn’t

release that blah blah blah this is this is redacted all that’s true but still

the the impact of of that information and we’re still getting to the bottom of

it. It’s completely changed most people’s narrative of what happened.

Like we had this sort of vague understanding, you know, but when you see in the email like clear evidence

that they’re talking about children in in pretty obscene ways,

horrifying ways. So that was the thing that like even I when I talked to Mike Benz about that, he was sort of incredulous about that. It’s like I

don’t think they would use children. It just doesn’t make any sense if it got caught. But it just seems like Yeah, if if Mike Benz was incredulous. I know that’s pretty big.

I Well, I just don’t think we really knew until we saw those files come out. Yeah.

And then you go, „Oh, well, you there’s no denying it now.“ My My position on it is completely shifted. I thought there’s probably some really sick people that

have an appetite for that, but I hadn’t seen any real evidence for it until these files. And now I’m like, „Oh, this is demonic. This is clearly demonic.“ it the Okay, so thank you for saying that.

Um uh I’m somebody who was raised a Christian and went to Bible school and

that kind of stuff as a kid and youth groups uh and then growing up in central coast

of California, let’s say, um veered in different ways. Mhm.

Uh but uh the experiences that we’ve encountered over the last half a dozen

years, it’s hard to come up with the language to express what we’re observing

in the world other than than the language of theology.

Well, demonic by action. So whether or not demons exist, if they did exist,

that is how they would behave. They would pray on children and torture children. And there was the one where there was a suggestion when a child was

praying to Jesus that like there was a joke that someone should dress up like Jesus.

I’m I did you see that one? No, I’m not I’m not watching this.

I don’t even want to I don’t even want People send it to me and I go, „Okay.“

Because I’m for the most part off social media,

but every now and then someone will send me something that I have to look at. I’m like, „Oh my god.“

Yeah. And these are the these are emails back and forth. There’s one of them where Epstein says, „I enjoyed the torture video.

There’s these references to pizza.“ A lot of references to pizza that are 100% some kind of a code. Yeah.

And then it brings you back to Pizzagate. Yeah.

And which was widely dismissed. You know, everybody’s like, „Oh, this is a bunch of cooks. Here it is.“

Uh she said she felt God’s presence next to her when she was in bed. She knows that Jesus watches over her and he helps

her save. He helped save her life. And then he writes, „Whoops.“ And then in response, Jeffrey Epstein says, „You

should dress up as him when you see her.“

Um it it is it is dark. You should dress up like Jesus when you see her. What the

[ __ ]

And well, look at the line.

You’re talking about a little look at the line. Look at the line above it.

How am I How am I supposed to interpret I’m coming trick? The o Jesus I’m coming trick.

It’s just the the whole thing. But so so we see this darkness. It involves uh leaders in academ,

in science, in industry, in politics. Yeah.

And and it it just, you know, I I remember a point in this arc of the last

six years where a film crew came on to my farm and wanted to shoot some segments and they were talking this and frankly I thought it was crazy talk. Um,

I kind of smiled and and you know tried to be civil and nice,

not contradict them uh uh about the new world order.

And um uh and then along comes, you know, then my wife one

day says, „Hey, you ought to look at this book from Claus Schwab. It’s called The New World Order.“

Like what? I mean, he was just saying it out loud. Yeah.

I mean, the World Economic Forum had those ads where they were saying, „You will own nothing and you will be happy.“

Yeah. And and it goes back to the current king of England was the guy that kind of launched that. He was the first one to be really talking about that that

you can if you you can go use your use your favorite AI and track it down yourself. Uh I prefer not to use Google

these days to try to find stuff, but uh it it we see vertical after vertical

after vertical after vertical where um information has been crafted and manipulated and these same tools of uh

of delegitimization of uh um

promotion of uh these messages. is uh that you are a conspiracy theorist or uh

um uh that you are controlled opposition is another favorite one. A lot of this was pioneered in the 60s by the FBI against the various protest movements and you can go back and track that.

Okay. The the the narrative of uh um uh

uh being a a collaborator uh surreptitiously is called bad jacketing. uh and and it has its own its

own language and and protocols for how to do this to people to divide

movements. We’re we’re we’re in this I mean in a way it’s kind of a glorious

moment where we’re having uh a huge amount of social

uh pressures coming together in this moment in time that you and I happen to live in. How fantastic is that to be at

a point in time where there is so much change, there’s so much social interaction and pressure and competition

between these different philosophies and and we’re swimming in it. I for as as somebody who writes on a daily basis

these essays on Substack because that’s how I make my living now because I can’t do what I used to do. Uh um it’s it’s

you’re a kid in a candy shop. There there’s so much corruption. There’s so much falsehood being promoted. There’s

so much of this uh manipulation of of reality.

And so if if you’re in the business of of trying to help people to make sense out of that, which is kind of what I do now for a living, uh it’s, you know, I

wake up every morning, people I get the feedback, how do you come up with all these ideas? I’m like, how do you not?

All you got to do is keep your eyes open. Yeah. It’s not hard to search anymore.

So So you talked about Ivormectin. I mean, the Ivormect story is is still ongoing. There was an announcement the

other day from HHS that they are launching new initiatives to investigate the use of ivormectin and cancer. And

there was immediate blowback uh along the lines of oncologists are outraged.

You know, the narrative is uh Bobby, you know, not saying this explicitly, but basically Bobby Kennedy is at it once again promoting falsehoods and conspiracy theories and it’s going to,

you know, we’re all going to die because uh because scientists are going to investigate the use of ivormectin and and other drugs.

So, why? So, this is the this is the core question and this is one of the things that puzzled me to no end. I

understood that they were upset that I had gotten better without the use of the vaccine, that I was a popular person,

that I was a famous person, and I made a video about a cancelled show. Dave Chappelle and I were supposed to do a

show and I made that video to let everyone know that I couldn’t do the show because I got CO. I had no idea it

was going to be even controversial. But I listed a bunch of things that I took and the [ __ ] hit the fan.

I talked about IV vitamins. I talked about monocodal antibodies. I talked about which were allowed predinazone. Yeah. All these things that

I talked about Zpack. I talked about all these different things that I took.

There was no mention of any of those things. There was only Ivormectin. And that’s what really puzzled me. I was

like, this is fascinating because I listed a bunch of different things, but there was no demonization of monoconal antibodies, but they did make them much

harder to get and eventually pulled them.

I I have a friend and his friend was in the hospital and they wouldn’t administer monoconal antibodies once he

got into the hospital. They wouldn’t allow him to have that.

What went on in the hospital is a whole another thing. But you mention that’s crazy.

But so so the the why the why that one medication only the only two threads that I can

pull on at all is that Ivormectin is a miracle drug. I mean Nobel Prize, right? Right.

Uh we don’t understand completely how it works.

In this case, it doesn’t seem to be working as an antiviral. that seems to be working as an imun immune stimulant pro-inflammatory

or or proimmune response in some way that’s subtle uh because it has this broad spectrum of activity against

things that have an immune response component in controlling but it’s off patent right they don’t understand it it’s off patent

and it it the response is as if it represents a significant threat to some

business interests. It’s hard to discern that. And you mentioned Zpac. So that’s another fascinating one. And to say that

it was only Ivormectton, Ivormekin was the most prominent, but they were actually effective in shutting down uh

the the Zpac um uh the use of hydroxychloricquin.

And hydroxychloricquin has a fascinating story. When you mention Zpac, you’re talking about Zeb Zeleno. And Zev was

the one that wrote the letter to the president saying, „Hey, here’s this data and this information about this drug

that is off patent. Um, we have a huge uh portfolio of experience in using it.

Um, millions and millions of doses. It’s safe in pregnancy. Uh, what’s not to like here?“ And and the story of that is

is a fascinating microcosm because it goes back to Ralph Bareric. Ralph Bareric had published that um back years

ago when you know he’s he’s kind of the guru of corona viruses and a good case can be made that he had his fingers all

over the engineering of this particular virus. Uh so he had published

that this drug was effective against corona viruses.

and Zev Zelenko, who’s passed away now, um uh got engaged in trying to find some way

to help his patients in New York with uh recovering from COVID and uh treating

COVID. and he went back did a deep dive into into Bareric’s work pulled out this drug hydroxychloricquin that had been

recommended wrote to the president about it started he got clinical experience with it um and you know caveat um uh

Mickey Willis is doing a uh bio uh on Zev now um and I’m involved in that so

conflict of interest but uh he was the one that pulled it out sent the letter to the president with his clinical experience.

President tasked Peter Navaro with sourcing the drug for the and and Peter economist went to town. I remember uh

the company I was working with Elim at the time getting a call from Peter, can you come up with some way to make more of this drug here domestically? We want

to source it so we have enough doses for everybody. And then I think it was Lancet published this paper that had

totally made up data that trashed the drug. Said that it’s toxic, doesn’t work, blah blah blah blah blah. It was

all fake. Okay. They pulled the paper when it became revealed that it was based on non-existent data, that it was

more propaganda published in one of the top medical journals in the United States. But by that time, it was completely crushed. So they didn’t have

to go after ZStack. They’d already killed ZStack. Ivormectton though that was a new threat. And one of the reasons

why it was a threat was there was a um metaanalysis that had been done at the Cochran. So the Cochran Institute in the

UK is like you know the holy grail for analysis of drugs uh and biologics and

uh this process of metaanalysis. They kind of they kind of wrote the rules for how to do it and they had done an

analysis that showed that Ivormectin was quite effective. uh and um then something happened

and uh there was some influence exerted and suddenly that metaanalysis got

quenched. It got squashed. Um there were two investigators that uh were involved

in building that. Um one kind of went underground and and got a big grant and carried on as an academic. The other one

got so pissed off that she created this organization called the World Council for Health. That’s Tess Lori.

And uh she really objected to what happened. But Ivormect, you know, there was a signal there.

There was a clear signal there. There was data supporting that signal. And then something happened to cause that

metaanalysis to be restructured. And certain studies that were showing how effective it was to be thrown out. And

then the suppression of the data coming out of India. You remember that?

Uh Uttar Pradesh and and Uttar Pradesh and and uh and I guess it had kind of it’s like the cat

was out of the bag and they had trouble putting it back in. So they just my sense is they turned up the amplitude on

the on the uh propaganda and the censorship in order to try to overcome this. and and I’m pretty sure remember

who was it that held the original patent Merc now I was involved um as an

observer on behalf of of Ditra to the active trials that were going on under the foundation for NIH which is

sponsored in significant way by Merc and which is now headed up by the former head of merc vaccines Julie Gerbering.

Uh Bobby can’t get her out. It’s the rules. uh and they were running these clinical trials including the clinical

trial that essentially by tweaking the dosing etc made it so that they came up with a result suggesting that Ivormectin

was not effective there there was a whole lot of manipulation and the why part still the best explanation I’ve heard is

that it had a lot to do with uh the risk that if there was an effective

counter measure. Then the utilization of the PREP act and the emergency counter

measures uh um uh to uh process to

enable fasttracking of these vaccines uh using this new technology

uh would no longer be valid because those are the rules is if there’s an existing counter measure then you can’t

uh implement those clauses.

So it was all about emergency use authorization.

It’s the I don’t know that that’s the case. It’s it is the only thing that makes sense when you see how much profit they made which which was enormous

enormous. So it was effective and yeah all that propaganda regardless of how much exposed them and exposed their methods they made hundreds of billions of dollars.

Uh it well and and that that the ugly part of all of this I mean people the

big big picture when I talk to people that are still kind of on the fence trying to make sense out of it you know there still a lot of those folks out

there the the thing that kind of gets into their brain is the greatest upward

transfer of wealth in modern history occurred during co Yeah,

it wasn’t just the vaccines. It was the whole enterprise with the lockdowns,

lockdowns, all the the what was done to small businesses, what was done uh to the economy, the stimulus packages,

they’re still digging out of all that fraud. Uh it it you know in retrospect

uh for for average folks uh that are just trying to put food on

the table and pay their rent uh to look at in retrospect what was you know quite

literally done to them. The middle class was hollowed out in like on hypers speed. uh this.

So yeah, I’m still pissed off about this.

Well, you should be. The thing is, not enough people are and so many people let it go. And part of the reason why not

enough people are pissed off about it is because they took the vaccine and they want to justify their decision. And you

will talk to a lot of people that make this blanket claim the vaccine saved millions of lives and they’ll just say that. Yeah, because that’s the

propaganda along with fa with safe and effective that was a promoted narrative and that was by the way the rationale given by the Nobel Prize committee to

award to Curico and Weissman was that these products which they had the thesis is they had been playing the

central role I disagree I think Peter Cas is the one that should have got it if you’re going to give it for if you’re going to give it for these vaccines it

was Peter Cas and his team at UBC that really was the enabling back. But be that as it may, the decisions made and

the committee said basically uh you know millions of lives have been saved and by

giving this Nobel at this time we are we hope that it will promote more people to accept this product

that that was explicitly the logic given at the time and that reflects what was really a thrust vector. Joe, I I’ve you

know, it’s what a bizarre world since we met. Uh and and so I’ve been sucked into uh

to call it the center right of Europe is a little bit of a misnomer because they’re all socialists as far as I’m concerned, Georgia, Maloney, and everybody else. But, you know, compared

to the far left, uh they’re labeled as neo-Nazis. But I’ve been traveling to Europe, interacting with these people.

You think it was bad for us, the European Union, the UK and the Canada

were order magnitude worse that we we we should be so grateful that we live in

this country at this time and that we still have something like a functioning constitution with the first and second

amendment. Uh look at the poor suckers in Australia and New Zealand.

Yeah. uh you know it uh remind yourself it could be a heck of a lot worse here and it has been a heck of a lot worse in

in Europe. I’ve got buddies in Romania in the leading uh um alternative party

you know calling it center right let’s say but um uh that uh you know recently I think it was the vice president that

came out and said specifically that that last election was stolen. It was in in Romania. Georgescu uh they tried to put

in jail and the logic was that uh I think it was Tik Tok supporting his campaign had been sponsored by the

Russians. It was the same game that they played against Trump of Russian collusion. They played that same book in

Romania successfully. But in the European Union environment under the European Council, they they don’t, you

know, they ain’t got a constitution and they can just step right in and and throw you in jail, inactivate your

candidacy, do whatever if you represent a populist threat to the existing structure. We talk about the deep state

but it’s it it doesn’t you know yeah it’s a problem here but and and thank yeah Mike Benz I defer to as as a

notable expert in that space but uh it’s it’s a lot worse in Europe and Australia and Canada and the UK and

uh I think you know we’re we’re in a in a perilous time here in the United

States where, you know, we have the midterm coming up, but but people like Bobby are making

progress and these dissident physicians that have risked so many things. Uh, and I’m just one, you know, people I hear people saying, „Oh, Robert, Robert,

they’ve been so mean to you.“ And I’m like, „Come on, guys.“ Um, you think they’ve been mean to me, then look at what they did to Bobby. And then if if

you know and then look, I don’t have a nick out of my ear, you know, look at what they did to Trump. What they did to

me is just I’m I’m nobody compared to that. And they’re willing to deploy that kind of capability against me. Uh think

about what’s really going on at the higher levels where where the big games are being played. And uh you know, at

least we can see it now. At least we have for those of us that have our eyes open, we have some ability to be aware.

But what what I’ve spent the last two years mostly trying to convince people about, I hardly ever talk about RNA. I sit um oh I Joe, I got to give a caveat.

Um forgive me. Um the opinions I’m expressing here are my own and not those of the US government, the CDC, or the

ACIP. There, I said it. Okay. Um, but you know, we we’re in a moment where

we’re seeing this how the levers, the gears of how all this works. Give you an example. Tomorrow,

Friday, February 13th, what could possibly go wrong?

Uh um hopefully my plane flight out of here works okay and they don’t have a drone attack or something, right? Um, so

tomorrow there’s a lawsuit uh filed on behalf of the American Academy of Pediat Pediatrics that seeks

to shut down the advisory committee on immunization practices and uh the changes that Bobby’s implemented there

uh and uh force all of that to go back to the way things were when it was functionally controlled by the

professional societies and particularly the American Academy of Pediatrics.

They they they we talk about this, you know, propaganda and weaponization and

and uh lawfare and those things and we talk about it as if it only happened in the last administration. It’s it’s still

ongoing all the time and it is going to go big time if if the house turns, which I think it probably will. I mean,

there’s a good chance that they’ve already drawn up articles of impeachment against Secretary Kennedy.

They’re talking about articles impeachment against President Trump.

We’re about to go into another two years of stagnation uh and and um you know, functional

uh what do we call it? We can’t call it civil war. Um uh you know, um war by

other means uh is is where we’re heading right now. But at this moment,

uh, I’m seeing major movement. You know, Kennedy is doing great stuff. The president is

doing great stuff. We’re seeing a transformation in America’s global reach. Uh, totally restructuring global

politics. And on the health side, the Make America Healthy Again movement, you know, there’s there’s some push back against that and a heck of a lot of propaganda being deployed against it.

Well, it’s this old quote that seems sort of abstract for most people most of the time, but rings kind of true, but you’re finding it true more and more.

Money is the root of all evil. Uh, profound. Uh, simple, but profound. Yeah.

I mean, this is the the co thing with ivormectin and alternative medications, off label medications. Why money?

I think it also has to do with control.

Right. I think which means money or access to money.

Yeah. It’s it’s it’s money and power in my mind.

But power they don’t want power without money.

They want they want to benefit from that power.

I I believe for the likes of Larry Frink and Bill Gates. I mean they can’t spend all that they have. Right.

It’s a marker. It’s a It’s like chips. You’re stacking up. Exactly. Right. They’re scoring in a video game. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. and and but also captured by their past actions and constantly trying to obuscate from

all the things that they have done in the past that could be like if you just went into Bill Gates’s stuff that he did in Africa

giving children polio with the polio vaccine that was from the AP news Africa in India. Yeah. I mean he’s kind of banned from India.

Uh the Yeah. So I don’t get it. I don’t get where these people live. I I’m I’m

happy. You know, as far as I’m concerned, I could walk away from all this stuff. It’s just kind of a sense of

obligation of what are you going to do when you’re 66? I have this opportunity to impact in a positive way on the world

on my way out the door. Uh who wouldn’t take it? Well, I guess a lot of people wouldn’t.

But I don’t have a need to have power. I have, thank God for my Substack subscribers. I have all all that I need.

My wife is happy. My horses are fed. My farm is paid off. It’s it’s you know

it’s and I have the luxury of doing good works and that’s enough. I don’t I don’t

get this this global power thrust and hunger.

That’s not what you do. That’s not your thing. But if you were a politician or you were some megalomaniacal

billionaire sort of business character that just wants to dominate and it was involved in a bunch of antitrust lawsuits in the past. That would be what not that we’re naming any names.

Not that we’re naming any names. That bribed off multimedia corporations to the tune of 300 plus million dollars so that they wouldn’t write bad stories

about him or or uh owns you know functionally owns the World Health Organization,

right? and a giant chunk of American farmland for was for a while trying to put that push that fake meat [ __ ] on everybody until that dropped off a cliff.

Yeah. And and yeah, so this the business models aren’t working out so good for the globalists, are they?

I think a lot of it is because of information that’s available now. Yeah.

And you can’t control like one of the things that did happen during COVID is these places like CNN people stopped

going to for information. They don’t believe them anymore. There’s just too much [ __ ] and no one got in trouble for spreading that [ __ ] There was

no corrections, no redactions, no no apologies. Yeah. And so no acknowledgement.

People now more than ever in my lifetime mistrust mainstream media. And polls show that that polls show that the trust

of mainstream media is at an all-time low for good reason. They did it to themselves. They prostituted themselves out to the pharmaceutical drug

companies. They had to say what they had to say on television. people knew what they were saying was incorrect and now no one trusts them.

So to this thread about four years ago I I read a report from the Trusted News

Initiative. You remember the TNI Yeah. was launched by the BBC, right?

Uh to counter Russian disinformation and then repurposed to counter vaccine disinformation.

Uh and they and I read this report about I’d gone on your show. Mhm. So, I was a little bit of a fan.

Uh, forgive me. Uh, and, um, so I’m reading this report and they’re talking about threats to the industry because

TNI is basically another trade organization. It’s another guild. Uh, it’s a global uh, major media guild.

And uh, so they’re they’re doing this internal analysis and reporting and and they’re talking about the risk vectors that they face. And they had a whole

great big section on Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan represents uh that that was that

was their uh threat that that was the major threat to their business model is you and what you represent

you as a metaphor for this new information economy and by God they called it right. It’s it’s and and when

I this again this has been part of my journey when I realized what I was experiencing and what it

meant to come on your show and have that um event occur which by the way blew up

my subscribers on Substack. Thank you so much. I still get a wave every year about in the in the month following. So,

January, I get a big bump in revenue.

Well, it blew up our subscribers on Spotify, too. During the heat of it, we gained in one month we gained two million subscribers.

I had Where are we at now? I had I had Oh, yeah. Please.

What is the What’s the Spotify subscribers? I never I know YouTube is over 20 million. What is Spotify at?

So, while he’s looking that up, I had this bizarre experience. You know, I’m just an old gay-haired guy with a with,

you know, about to have my 47th wedding anniversary. Congratulations.

Thank you. I’m proud of it. Um uh I would have 20 year olds come up in the street and fist bump me. I’m like, what the hell?

Yeah. Well, they don’t have a representative. I mean, they don’t see anyone. All males.

Yes. Males. Th those males don’t have anybody in mainstream news that represents anything that resembles them.

I mean, I know I’m much older than them,

but I never went down this path of decay and weirdness that a lot of adult males go into corporate business and industry

and they become something unrecognizable to these young men who have freedom in life and they’re being suppressed and they’re being told that they’re toxic.

That was a singer right there.

Yeah. young men that have freedom in life. Yeah. And then they compromise themselves. They don’t want to be what their dad is.

They don’t want to be what their uncle is. They don’t want to be these people that they work for. They’re like, „What is this [ __ ] [ __ ] life? I don’t want that. I know I’m being lied to. I

know the news is full of [ __ ] And I know that this one guy who is uh also a cage fighting commentator and a comedian

and doesn’t have to lie. Like I’m not being I don’t have a boss really. I mean Spotify promotes the show. They put the

show out. We’re in partnership with them, but there’s no one telling me what to do, which is why you’re here right now because there’s no one. I don’t have a

conversation with no one. I literally like reach out to my guy and say, „Hey,

contact Mr. Malone and let’s get him back on.“

All I know All I know is I got a message uh from through X. Yeah. Saying Joe Rogan, do you want to come on?

That was actually me. That message is me, which I rarely use those things, but I was trying to figure out how to contact you. So, I’ve reached out to you

there and then I sent it to my guy and he takes care of it. Like, that’s it.

There’s no one else. There’s no one involved in all that, which you can still be you that way. As soon as you

get involved in enormous groups of humans and a bunch a board, you have to sit down at a a table with other

executives. You have to make decisions based on the profitability of the company and shareholders and stuff. I have none of that.

It’s a skeleton crew.

So, as I look back, you know, the question, why were you able to do this Malone?

Um, why were you able to, you know, oh,

you were so brave, Dr. Malone. I could Well, Robert Malone, that name became like a major.

It became like, oh, yeah, that Malone guy.

Yeah, it’s it’s all weaponized. Um, but but then on the other side, I tour. I do these rallies and stuff like this. And,

uh, you know, my wife, it really makes my wife nervous. I I’m the middle-aged

women come up to me and they want to have selfies. Uh and and I get this uh oh, Dr. Malone, you were so brave.

You’re such a hero kind of stuff, which I frankly find a little embarrassing. I mean, it’s sweet, but um yeah, there’s a lot of heroes. Really?

Why why why was that? Yeah. Yeah. The guys that that you know um defend the nation, right?

Uh um but why was I able to speak? I think a big part of it was I had no debt.

Um I wasn’t beholden to anybody, right?

And uh like you say, I’d been about a decade being a consultant, a freel consultant, and it had gotten under my

skin. I’ve always been independent, you know, farmer carpenter kind of stuff. Uh and um that’s I guess been part of my

problem is I just don’t fit in in corporate life. I I can’t suck up to people and it’s just not in me.

Well, it’s a very unhealthy environment for anybody to to get sucked into that bizarre group think. It’s just good

word. Um yeah, so yeah. So, so, uh, the this decentralized subscriberbased

model, the the epiphany was, and I’m being quite sincere, you know, it was one of those moments my wife and I

looked at each other and we said, „What the hell are we going to do now?“ Um,

our consulting business is shot. Nobody wants to talk to me. I’ve been delegitimized. They say, „I don’t know what I know. I haven’t done what I’ve

done.“ Uh, and this has been promoted by all the top liberal publications in the world. Yeah.

And uh, so so I said, okay, Rogan built this thing day after day, week after

week for years. He just stayed on it and doing it. And we can do that, too. We can bring that kind of work ethic into

our world. Steve Kersh had told me, „You ought to get on Spotify.“ And we went we took it on seriously. We published

thousands of essays now almost every day. It’s you know you mean substack you substack. What did I say? Substack. I apolog Yeah.

Apologize. Um and and so we just work at it again and again and again trying to put out content and we’re we’re

shadowbanned and small roommed on X in a serious way. uh you know I got 1.3

million subscribers of which uh you know all the time I get feedback I never see your stuff uh well it’s algorithmic

whatever it is you know and you can ask Grock about Robert Malone and and you know you get back um

uh you know I’m I’m a controversial figure uh but you know not whining

uh and so we have we have a lot of subscribers But we just have this core of paid subscribers

and they send in their five bucks a month and uh it’s all we need and it totally sets us free. We we can talk

about whatever we want. And yeah, now that I’m pseudo government employee, I’m a special government employee without

pay. Boy, that’s like the worst of both worlds. Um cuz cuz there’s I have that

the truth is um I have guard rails that that constrain me in a way that I didn’t

used to be constrained uh for talking about some things. You know, I I have to uh live in this world. I interface with

uh the secretary and and with the deputy chief of staff and other people. And now I’m working with the state department

more uh and um so you know I have to I have to be more mindful.

What is your function like? What what do you do over there at state or?

Yeah both when you’re working for the government like how do they use your services?

So um the special government employee category is a designation from the executive branch. It’s the one that Elon

had. I like to say I’m in the same category as Elon was, only without all the money. Um, uh, so, uh, he was a SGE without pay. I’m an SGE without pay.

And, uh, because I serve on the advisory committee on immunization practices of the CDC, which is this uh, they call it,

it’s a FAA committee, federal advisory committee act that advises the director of the CDC. That’s its only job on

vaccine policy. Okay. Um, so I’m the vice chair, which is largely honorary.

What that means is that if the chair isn’t there, I draw the short straw and I have to chair those bloody meetings like the last one for hepatitis B,

Berthos, which was uh just a a slugfest.

Ugly, the worst meeting I’ve ever had to adjudicate my entire life. Um, but for

the most part, I sit on these subcommittees. I sit on the co working group subcommittee. Um, I’m not supposed to talk about the next meeting. I was

told uh um uh two days ago. Uh so, uh that’s one of my my guard rails. Uh but

uh stay tuned uh for what is going to come down if the AAP lawsuit doesn’t prevail and we’re allowed to actually have the meeting. Uh but so that’s that.

I’m also the chair of the influenza working group. Uh stay tuned for that.

Uh, and now I am so and I from time to time the secretary asks me to help him

sort out some issue. You know, I’ll get a phone call. I once got a phone call on um on the Big Island. Uh I did this

recent series of rallies to try to um you know to recap the whole reason why

that we did that first hit was to try to publicize the stop the mandates rally in DC. That was the that was the subtext

for that as you recall and I forgot to even mention it. We had to go back in to to do another shoot for that. Remember,

I’m still fighting that same battle of trying to stop these mandated vaccines.

So, I’m sitting there in Hawaii. I’m going to another one of these rallies. I get a call out of the blue from one of Bobby’s people and they want some advice

about a topic having to do with the decision he has to make about spending money on another uh bioense initiative.

Um so I get that kind of stuff. Uh he called me soon after he was confirmed to get my opinion about what was going on

in the chicken industry and all the slaughter that was happening for bird flu. And I told him, „This doesn’t make sense. It’s not good policy. There’s no way you can

get rid of bird flu doing this. It’s in the wild bird populations and this is just nonsensical what they’re doing. Why do you think they did that?

Okay, so that’s that’s interesting that now we drive into a kind of public health and vaccinology.

Uh you’re asking the why. Yeah. And it’s been a long-standing policy. They killed millions of chickens, right? They do it every time. Every time there’s a bird flu.

Yeah. It’s it’s and and any other outbreak. So, right now in Spain, I just wrote an essay about this. It was the maybe the biggest reveal on what’s going

on in Spain right now. There’s a Spanish research lab that’s been collaborating with the USDA that is investigating

swine fever virus and they’re actually doing gain of function research on swine fever virus. Swine fever virus, African swine fever virus kills pigs like crazy.

Um, and already China has locked down and will not accept Spanish pork. And it is a lab leak,

you know, and there was a bunch of dead hogs last November around this facility.

And now it’s the the Spanish and the European Union are are, you know,

blowing a circuit over this um because uh um it’s really compromised the

Spanish pork industry. So, so this kind of stuff when when this happens the the reaction is we just have to kill all of

them. We have to kill all the potential carriers. And this has been the wisdom

quote uh of in in this kind of uh um

agrarian animal husbandry world for a long time in the context in particular

of factory farming. So the logic is that if you were to vaccinate these birds

with a leaky vaccine, which you know COVID was a leaky vaccine, influenza is a leaky vaccine. If you give the birds a

leaky vaccine, what you’ll get out of that variance is precisely vaccine resistant flu.

Okay? And so we we have no choice has been the logic but to exter you know

like the ostriches in Canada. remember that story? That was shocking. Okay,

there was no logic behind that. It’s it’s gone. It’s become entrenched as policy as kind of this reflexive

knee-jerk thing that if we have an outbreak, what we do is we kill because we can’t control the virus. And the

things that we could do to control the virus aren’t really going to control it and it’s actually going to make things worse. Is there any logic to that?

Uh we we can argue with the margins. We can argue at the margins, but when you got something that if you had something that didn’t have a natural reservoir,

uh then then you can make the case that that you could eliminate it in that

geographic population and keep it from spreading outside. But when you have a natural reservoir like Explain that.

Uh explain the natural reservoir. Okay. In the case of aven influenza,

um water foul and migratory birds

uh are amazing uh vectors for carrying and propagating influenza. And influenza

survives in water for a very long period of time. And so you’ve got ducks and geese traveling north to south all over

um every continent that are susceptible to infection by aven influenza and all the other

migratory birds, but in particular the waterfell galformms. My wife would uh um

wrap me on the head if I didn’t use the right term. Uh so she’s a aven specialist. So uh so these these birds

uh carry the flu and a number of them are relatively resistant. They’ve been subjected to aven influenza for

centuries or millennia and uh sometimes you’ll get a variant come out that’ll wipe out a whole bunch of birds. Uh West

Nile virus in crows is a great example and now you have crow populations coming back that are resistant to West Nile. We haven’t gotten rid of West Nile. we’ve

just bred more resistant birds. That’s kind of, you know, that’s Brett Weinstein space, right? That’s evolution. It’s magical.

Uh and so you if you have a natural animal reservoir

uh like the ticks and lime and uh and deer.

What are you going to do? Exterminate all the deer?

Uh no, that’s not practical. Um, Mao tried to exterminate the birds because of the thesis that they were eating up

all the spare grain and compromising availability of food to the populace,

right? And what happened? Major ecological catastrophe. You can’t eliminate the birds. You can’t go and

kill all the water foul. That would just be ecologically insane.

But, you know, sometimes we do insane things. And in the case of aven influenza, it’s there. It’s endemic.

It’s in all that migratory waterfell.

They poop an amazing amount of influenza. It gets in the water supply.

The water supply goes everywhere. Um they, you know, small birds are interacting with I don’t know if you ever been around a chicken barn

uh or turkey barn. Okay. Yeah. There’s there’s chickens and then there’s commercial chicken production, right? Um so so these operations are like petri

dishes for bad stuff happening and the only way you can interfere with that and by the way the Amish are starting to do it is put something in

the water supply and what the Amish are using is is a compound called hypocchloric acid and

it’s it’s stopping these things and it’s stopping the ecoli and a lot of other stuff but the US that’s another problem

is is you know when you have these the momentum of these large government agencies with their consensus about the

way things are done. Uh you know there’s a saying that uh the only time the FDA

ever changes is if somebody in a key position retires or passes away. They

they kind of get entrenched in this is how we do things.

We we kill chickens. If we have aven influenza come out we kill chicken barns. And and this is the the beauty of

Secretary Kennedy coming in being uh kind of not invested in the way things

are and the way we do things and being willing to ask the questions, does this

really make sense? Um and uh that has been heresy. It’s obviously is still heresy to do that to ask those questions

to to you know have the president say we need to restructure the vaccine schedule. Oh my god, the sky is falling.

Kids are going to die left and right.

There’s going to be death on the street because we ended the thyol in multid-dosese and influenza vials. Um this this kind of catastrophic thinking,

but Kennedy has and the president have the courage to question these narratives, these longheldstanding

beliefs. And in the case of the bird flu, you know, he he called me up. I said, „Bobby, I don’t think this makes sense. I think that what we really need

to do is we need to breed resistant chickens. And the way we breed resistant chickens, and by the way, we’ve we’ve written about this also in our substack.

There are in in the domain of uh chicken cultivars and this you you have chickens, you know, there are people that are just freaks about chickens.

Yeah.

Uh and and all of these ver because of that, we have this huge repository of different cultivars of chickens. uh you

know we could say they were all generated through gain of function research the old school way. Uh and um and a number of those are relatively

resistant to bird flu. Well in a logical world you would have Tyson’s and you know maybe the government has to incentivize this. It shouldn’t have to.

You would have Tyson’s in there saying well guys what we need is a bird flu resistant chicken. Let’s get on it.

Okay. Um and that is essentially the position that the secretary took is is this policy of just extremely aggressive

mass culling is not producing the outcome that we want. It has never produced the outcome that we want. it

will never eliminate bird flu because it has an endemic reservoir and we’ve got to think different and and now that’s

starting to percolate through the system and there is more research into alternative strategies including the

possibility of various uh prophylactic interventions in in feed and in water.

Uh that’s you know and in a lot of these chicken houses mist as you’ll recall they have the misters because they got to control the temperatures. So they are

set up with misters and that can also be a way to deliver things that are non-toxic like HOC that can um knock out

these viruses and uh influ and uh ecoli and other things that cause uh reduced

growth and and loss of of weight uh in chickens which is the metric that Tyson’s and those guys is food

conversion. That’s the metric they all prey to. uh you know there’s different we can we can think differently and we

have been locked into um you know consensus that has emerged over decades

uh based on old ways of thinking and the same people are in charge so they don’t want to change

and and they kind of often kind of have these lineages where they’re passing power on to the people that they’ve

mentored. Um, so that’s that’s my HHS world. And then the State Department world is a new thing that’s come in. I

have a uh I’m I’m starting to support the uh group uh under Secretary Rubio

that’s responsible for uh the various treaties having to do with uh arms

containment and in particular the bioweapons convention. So this morning I got up early uh and you know there was

so um honest to God I don’t want to pump you up too much. I mean you might get an ego or something but so I say to the

state they say Robert we want you to go to Geneva to give this talk on the use of AI for monitoring uh bioweapons

threats because we have no way of monitoring compliance with the bioweapons convention right now and it’s been a historic problem and and the

president has said that we’re going to we think that we can apply artificial intelligence to this problem set of of

monitoring and verifying compliance with the bioweapons convention which is heresy. It’s another one of these thinking outside of the box things. Uh

so they say we want you to go to Geneva and give this talk and and be the key keynote. And I say and what’s the date?

Oh, it’s February 12th. Um and I say I I don’t talk about this because you know

it’s the general thing. You don’t tell people that you’re going to be on Rogan.

Um, you let Rogan say that when Rogan’s ready. Uh, and so I said, „But that I’m scheduled for Rogan day.“ Um, and they’re like, „Oh, Rogan.“ Well, okay.

Absolutely. You got to go on that one.

That’s way more important than than going and speaking at the UN, so you’re the State Department thinks you’re more important than me talking about boweapons. And they let me uh WebExit.

So, so that’s what happened this morning. And uh it is a so I’m I’m supporting that group uh um uh now and

maybe increasingly over time and I don’t know where that goes.

So you were talking about um these pigs that it’s a lab leak that’s giving these pig

what is it another gain of function laboratory where there so this is this is truly a breaking news thing. Uh our media is not covering it.

Uh and shocker.

Yeah. Um it it is being covered in Europe. It and particularly in Spain this this is a major economic threat

because they’re I think the number two pork producer in the world. Um and you know in the hogs that are feeding on acorns etc. That’s that’s a big specialty market space.

Yeah. Uh so last November uh this this laboratory that is

ostensibly working this is I mean it’s Wuhan 2.0 only. The good news is that

this is not uh swine flu. People get that confused.

I’m not talking about swine flu. This is African swine fever. It’s been around for millennia. It’s never crossed into humans. It’s a very different virus. So,

just make sure we got that clear. Okay.

Um, so this highly lethal African uh swine fever virus

uh is is a threat to the global pork industry.

And uh so this laboratory in Spain is cooperating with the USDA to try to

develop a new vaccine for African swine fever.

And in doing so, the the our government once again was unaware that this even existed. There’s a cooperative agreement

between USDA and this laboratory to engage in if if you read they don’t call

it gain of function research. They call it building recominant viruses uh and experimenting in uh different virus

structures uh to allow them to better build a better vaccine. Exactly the same logic that was used in Wuhan. Okay. Now

then last November, so this is ongoing in this little laboratory. And what this relates to Joe is the idea that is being

promoted that uh for justice and equity and sharing we need to enable there

being uh distribution of highly infectious pathogens all over the world in separate laboratories so that um

we’re we in the big bad west are not imposing and enabling our industries to prey on name your uh emerging economy.

uh by taking biologic resources from them. In other words, new viruses and using them to build stuff, we have to

cooperate and they have to have access to these reagents. So the logic right now that’s in play and being promoted by

the WHO is that we should have uh high pathogen repositories and research

programs all over the world decentralized in these emerging economy states in you know Spain is is uh not

Germany uh but so so there’s a Spanish lab USD is cooperating with them they’re going to build a African swine fever

virus vaccine they’re doing gain of function research church and then and by the way just like in Wuhan there’s some

construction going on uh related to that and then uh suddenly

and it’s an area that is very dense in wild hogs. Now somehow we got to get this through our brain. Okay, you don’t

put the facility in a place that’s proximal to the thing that might get infected if you have a lab leak. I mean,

that’s that ought to be like rule number one stamped on everybody’s brain. You don’t do it. Like the Rocky Mountain labs make a lot of sense. If you’re

going to be working with nasty stuff and you got to do it, put it somewhere obscure, not in Boston, right? Um, so

they’re doing it. They’re surrounded by dense wild hog population and suddenly last November people detect there is

wild hogs dead all over around this facility. What could possibly have happened? So they start investigating

the people. police have been in uh grab the records, grab the digital information, etc. because the entire

Spanish pork industry is now compromised. Their major client, China, has already pulled their trade barriers.

No more Spanish pork going into China. I advocate that President Trump ought to drop the curtain right now because when

I looked at the distribution of wild hogs, I mean, you you’ve traveled enough, you know, uh how important uh

wild feral hogs are in the economy in uh Italy. The wild hogs are all over in

Europe. And this place in Catalonia is right near the French border. I don’t And then like right on the other side, a couple hundred miles is Italy.

and and the band of of high density wild hogs spreads like that up through the mountains and then down into Italy. And

and I think that uh if if I was sitting in the White House right now, I think uh to protect, you

know, both for the president core constituency is agg

voted for him, you know, three times and he’s that he holds that near and

dear and I think that uh it’s good politics and it’s good public health

it’s good health uh agricultural decision to raise the barriers now um

until we can see that Europe has resolved the risk associated with this how are they going to resolve that

so once again what this is wild hogs this is not like it’s anything that’s contained I and and to your point I don’t know the

answer I mean that right now what they’re doing is they’re using drones uh to try to find, you know, how hard it is to hunt wild hogs.

Yeah. They hunt them out of helicopters here in Texas. Yeah. And they still can’t get them.

And the hogs are winning. It’s like the emu wars in Australia, right?

My friend Monty Franklin is from Australia actually has a joke about that. We we fought a war with the emos and we lost.

It’s true. We have emus on our farm and and they are weird animals, man. It’s like living with dinosaurs. Uh, but uh they’re dumb as [ __ ] too.

They are. They are weird. They My wife says they don’t have two brain cells to rub together.

No. I I talked to a lady who’s a falconer and she said the dumbest birds by far, emus. Second dumbest are owls, she said. Oh, really? I didn’t know the owls.

Ain’t that crazy? Yeah, I didn’t know that.

I thought they were so smart. Give a hoot, don’t pollute. They’re always wearing a monle. You know, they’re always the wise professor.

Well, right. It goes back to it goes back to Athens. The symbol of uh learning has been the owl. Very weird. Very weird.

Yeah. So emos are weird. But I I don’t know what they’re going to do.

What they did to control in Europe. So uh the former assistant director general of the WHO who I knew this was her claim

to fame was she had led the development of rabies baits

and they would bait uh um with a uh rabies vaccine to try to control the

incidence of rabies in particularly foxes was the problem throughout Europe.

And a lot of the foxes were um crossing from the uh less developed part of the

European Union into France, which was not acceptable. Uh she was French. And so uh what they did is they developed these baits with a vaccine.

Uh and uh they would distribute them out of helicopters. There’s a whole science about how dense the baits have to be to

get uh immunity against rabies in in um fox populations. A whole science around it, but that they they was successful.

Um they controlled uh fox and wolf population rabies in Europe largely eradicated it through the use of baits distributed by helicopters.

Do they have a vaccine for this?

No, they don’t. That’s what they were supposed to be developing. That was the whole purpose. they were supposed to be developing, but really what they were developing is a more transmissible strain.

Well, whatever. Yeah. In order to prove that they could I don’t know, you know,

it’s the it’s the same story over Wuhan 2.0. Exactly. And how how are we not going to see this

as an increasing trend? And and there’s the whole dark side that, you know, when I you know, I read my comments uh maybe

I shouldn’t sometimes, but I do. Don’t do it after this show.

Yeah. Um uh so so you know, you get the blowback. Uh well, this is all by intention because they’re building

market for whatever it is that they want to market, right? That’s the there’s one of the dark themes about COVID was that uh

they wanted to promote the spread of COVID in order to sell the vaccines and blah blah blah, you know? So that’s the the narrative. And so in this case,

well, they want to spread African swine fever because somehow they’re going to profit from that while destroying their pork industry, you know, but this is

this is the armchair uh strategists on the internet. Uh but that has it gotten into the domestic pork market?

Interesting question. Not to my knowledge yet, but I have this interesting colleague that I work with closely at the ACIP named Rhettz Levy

who’s the chair of the COVID working group and is giving the pharmaceutical industry a run for their money right now and it’s of course being vilified by the

press etc. And Rzziff is a full professor at MIT

and his core competence uh is risk analysis and mitigation.

And he’s he he reads my Substack because we’re friends. Uh he doesn’t subscribe,

I’m pretty sure, but he reads it. Um and uh um so he he we’re talking and he says,

„Yeah, I read that thing that you put out about that virus.“ and he said, ‚I wrote a proposal years ago about risk mitigation and the need to do something

about that because of it the ease by which it can enter the domestic pork population.

So I infer from that that there is a whole body of science and logic about and he said it’s it’s it’s very readily

transmitted into commercial pork which is why the Chinese have already dropped you know dropped the curtain and said no we’re not going to allow any of that

into our into China uh because of the risk. I mean, what we’re talking about,

so I I wrote an essay about um uh uh lowrisk, high impact

events, which is what we’re talking about. Another example of a low-risk,

high impact event uh is gan drive technology that Gates is promoting to exterminate the mosquitoes, for example.

You know, gan drive technology can be used to exterminate a species,

particularly ones that have a high reproductive rate.

And uh you know it’s another one that is a crisper application. Uh but there’s a

whole school of thought that GAN drive tech should never be let out of the box into the environment

because and and that what’s you know there are those that are actively promoting its use

uh and uh to eliminate bad stuff and uh you know we’re all for

eliminating bad stuff uh um uh you know organisms, insects, worms, flies, stuff.

Uh, and yet it and and we can do experiments where we say, „Oh, we’ll cultivate this kind of fly together with that kind of fly,

and only these flies are going to have gene drive, and we’re going to look for whether or not it gets over to these flies. And if it doesn’t, then we can conclude that it’s unlikely.“ But as

Brett would tell you, um, we’re dealing with ecosystems here, really complex ecosystems and the the risk environment

now that I think grown-ups have to acknowledge coming out of COVID, you know, the big

lessons we can we can we can talk about these egregious things that we’ve all experienced that have been put on us,

but the big picture is this thing came out and I’m convinced it was engineered. I’m I I believe the most

likely hypothesis is not that it was intentionally released. I still think that’s a possibility, but that it was an unintentional uh release, an infection

of of a lab worker or something like that. Let it get out because that’s what happens again and again in these facilities.

uh the these low probability events can have extremely high impacts and as we’ve

seen global impacts and we have to rethink how we’re managing risk which is as I

mentioned RTS’s kind of core competence and and that logic

runs up against this belief that well it hasn’t happened so far and I’m an expert expert and I have the right to play

around in this in this sandbox that I’ve helped develop. I know more than you do.

How can you tell me that I shouldn’t be doing that? You don’t have the right to tell me. I’m the expert in this space.

And uh to come into that environment and say, „Look guys, you’re playing around with stuff that could have a very high

impact even though it hasn’t happened yet.

And you’ve got to to rethink uh what is acceptable and and I think

that that you know we were talking a moment about the state department and uh um uh weapon control.

We’re now in an environment where the speed of of um growth of the power of biotechnology

is accelerating. It’s going exponential just like what we saw with semiconductors.

And uh our bioeththics,

our regulatory structures, our our way of thinking about those risks is

completely unable to keep up with the pace of the advance.

And that is creating uh a whole new threat scene. Not to scare people. I mean, I I as I was thinking about coming on here, I was saying to myself, „Okay,

Robert, just take a deep breath. It’s only Joe Rogan. He’s a human. And uh you want to stay positive.“ And I I don’t want to go dark and just scare people,

but we’ve got to take um we got to recognize that uh this is a different world now.

We have all of this digital tech and and what it means and information control

and and suppression and manipulation psychologically uh basically programming customized

programming uh through avatars and all of this power. But we also have in parallel this

world of rapidly advancing biotechnology that is, you know, for for the likes of

Yuval Harrari and those that are imagining a future of transhumanism.

uh and all of that means uh we we are moving very rapidly into a

world uh that we can hardly even process.

One of the big thrust vectors in Silicon Valley right now relating to reproductive rights has to do with the development of artificial wombs.

You know, these these wealthy um privileged people don’t want to carry their own babies.

And I guess surrogates are too cumbersome or risky.

So they’re really talking about it’s not talking. It’s not talking.

They’re they’re we’re going to run an essay about this soon. They already have a lamb that they have grown denovo in an artificial womb.

We’re we’re there.

Okay. And and these people see it as freeing. This this is this is um more women’s rights.

uh you know we we don’t need to uh have the organic process of carrying a baby

and that’s a good thing they believe you know completely disregarding that there is a whole lot of subtle complex

interactions that occur between mother and fetus yes in the womb. Okay, that gives rise to right you’re who knows what kind of

humans you’re going to develop with no interaction with the mother at all the entire nine months where they’re developing but that the exchange of hormones

but for the sake of convenience we want to do that oh god okay and that what that you know

zoom in on that okay that has all kinds of implications it has implications for organ transplantation my friend Yana

Kellik I don’t know if you know Yan. If you’ve ever had him on, you might want to sometime interesting character. He is the Washington bureau chief for this uh newspaper that is defamed all the time,

ridiculed Epic Times. Mhm.

Okay. Which I think is like the only print newspaper left in the United States that’s worth reading that ascribes to classical journalism. But

he’s just come out with a book about um organ harvesting in China and organ harvesting on demand, documenting that

they are using live prisoners and keeping them in compounds and testing them for their genetic background and characteristics and then harvesting them

when necessary to provide organs for transplantation largely to Westerners because it is enormously profitable and

also to leaders in the CCP. This is what all this brewhaha was about the open mic event with Putin about uh we can use

transplantation to let us live another hundred years that remember that little clip.

So that this in in a world in which we can have artificial wombs um we can grow our own clones to provide

donor tissue to buy provide an insurance policy. We we are right at the doorstep of that.

Okay.

Again, demonic. It sounds demonic. I mean, is a soul a real thing? Just because it can’t be quantified by science, you can’t measure it. I mean,

the concept of the soul has always existed. If that’s a real thing,

who knows what you’re doing creating a human being from an artificial womb? Who knows what kind of processes are

happening? We we know that stress on the mother imparts all sorts of unwanted

characteristics in children. We know that we know like all kinds of interactions the playing the playing of music that’s real. Yes.

Okay.

The soothing playing of music. Yeah. Uh so so that’s happening that that vector

is proceeding and once you have that in the in a world of crisper okay you can

do genetic modification of a very small number of cells and then grow a fetus from that okay so that opens the door to do you

remember did you watch the movie Gatka gatka absolutely recommended if you want to understand our brave new world the

one that’s really coming at us and the ethical conundrums associated with that.

Watch Gataga. And by the way, it has great production value, too, doesn’t it? It’s well made. Great movie.

Great movie and totally underappreciated and terrifying. Yeah, that’s really what our future is.

And and the title G- A T A GA refers to a DNA sequence, by the way. That’s why the name Gataga. Oh,

okay. So, so watch the movie. You’ve already seen it. You get it. Okay. We’re moving to that space where we have customuilt humans.

Now it’s being you know what’s driving that convenience. Who doesn’t want to have a child that’s better than that’s like you but better, stronger, bigger,

you know, smarter,

better vision. Get rid of all the problems that I’ve got, right? Or you’ve got or whomever, you know, and and in your in your next offspring. And all you

got to do because here’s another fun fact. At bulk,

whole genome sequencing is now about 300 bucks.

Whole genome sequencing is the is the portal for selective engineering

with with cast 9 crisper systems. So we’re we now we’re right on the threshold of that entire spectrum of

capability of manipulating animals life fundamentals of life in every species and humans

and concurrently we have the incoming vector of robotics technology

and modern computational advance you know we’re moving rapidly I you know people say oh it’s going to be next month we’re going to have general

artificial int intelligence. Well, they keep saying that month after month. What do we got here?

A video made about the the artificial wounds. Yeah. Oh boy.

I don’t know who made this. I was trying to figure out who made this. I don’t think the company who Oh, this made it.

Yeah. I’m not BSing. I mean, doesn’t this look like it’s something straight out of the Matrix? 100%. This is all 3D.

Oh my. Obviously, it’s not real, but Oh my god, this is terrifying.

That this this is a business model. Like what is what kind of psychology does this child have with no exposure to its mother?

Hey, but for the nine months for mom for mom, it’s a lot more convenient and she can get the perfect baby that she wants. What’s not to like here? Joe,

that’s a [ __ ] serial killer. Yeah. And you put it on SSRI.

Well, this is the thing about Do you know the story about Ted Kazinski? One of the stories one of the things that happened to him in the Netflix documentary that go into

this. He was very sick when he was a boy, when he was a baby. And they kept him in this nursery with no contact with human beings for a long time. For a long

time. No one picked him up when he cried. He just sat in in this crib with no contact with his mother. Nothing. Yeah.

And he from then on, I mean, his brother always described him as just like off. Yeah. Just off. Yeah.

He He never had that.

Early stage neural development is amazing and profound. And by the way, this loops back to the vaccine story.

When we’re when we’re doing all these jabs on these little tiny kids like hepatitis Bose, they are at a stage where this thing is just growing like

crazy and so is their liver and everything else and you’re injecting toxic chemicals into their body which you which you really haven’t

characterized well and you’re stacking them. Yeah.

Um and no one’s done the studies. So this is doing it for profit. This is another thing that the secretary is adamant

about and and that the president has led on.

Well, the the having them exempt from any legal ramifications of the adverse side effects of vaccines, what they did during the Reagan administration is

really like it it gave them this free license.

Yeah. Free license to just go crazy and jack up the vaccine schedule as high as they could justify and then along with

it corresponding profits rise. That’s what’s [ __ ] scary. It’s it’s so if you want to go down that rabbit hole,

it’s even worse. Um once functionally because of how difficult it is to prove an endpoint and get a vaccine licensed

once you get it licensed, you basically have a cash cow in perpetuity.

And if you get it down on the pediatric schedule, in other words, you manage to jam it through the ACIP because the ACIP

the wisdom of Congress is vested with the authority of authorizing the vaccines for children program

acquisitions. So if the a there’s no other program in the entire US states United States government that is outside

of congressional oversight. The ACIP can decide that this vaccine needs to be purchased for the vaccines for children

program. And historically because the ACIP has been captured by pharma and by the CDC itself and by academia. Um it those decisions they never go backwards,

right? And so you get the product down onto the VFC, the vaccine for children program, and the pediatric schedule, and

then that triggers the indemnification clause that you’re talking about, which by the way is different from the one that kicked in with the COVID situation

with the PREP act. That’s that’s even worse. But what you end up with, Joe, is a situation where as the vaccine

manufacturer, think it, you now have no legal liability. You have guaranteed purchasing,

distribution, and marketing because the CDC does all the propaganda. Vaccines are safe and effective. You must take this, right? And then then you end up

with and it’s in many cases it’s school district level. It’s not even state level. The states have the right to regulate the practice of medicine. and the federal government doesn’t. That

means the CDC can advise that this is the vaccine schedule. And many states because they don’t have the infrastructure to actually process

what’s going on, they say, „Well, if the CDC advises it, then we’re going to mandate it, okay? Or school districts

do.“ And so you end up in this situation where you as the manufacturer get your product on the market. You get it down

into this special program. You got guaranteed purchase, guaranteed profit, full indemnification.

marketing, purchase, distribution, all paid for by the taxpayer and no liability.

It’s it’s perfect as a business model. What’s not to like?

It’s so scary how many people just go along with it, too. You know, they they don’t just go along with it,

they are propagandized into believing it as and promoting it because theology they’ve administered to Exactly. I was going to say it’s religious dogma.

They’ve administered it to their children. They believe in it wholeheartedly. And when someone says something like vaccines don’t cause autism, the whole audience will applaud.

And you’re like, „How do you know? How do you know that?“ Well, you’re so confident that you’re applauding.

Well, it’s because what I’ve heard. I’ve heard it so many times. Of course, I believe it. That’s what’s twisted.

It’s just it’s just Well, that it and and it illustrates the power of what we’re dealing with.

Yeah. And once you get it by thinking through the vaccine story, I mean,

you’ve you’ve um you’re you’re ruined now, my friend,

because once once you get it about vaccines, then you see it everywhere.

Well, I had Suzanne Humphre on who wrote uh that book, Dissolving Illusions.

Uhhuh. And you know that that book is a must-read for anybody who wants to really understand the history of vaccines and what really happened in

terms of the end of pandemics and the introduction of these vaccines like what actually took place.

Yes. Yes. Oh, that that and you know there’s a whole thread of of how prevalent uh um lead was in the

population in in the powdered wigs and so many things that we had. And then when they got rid of the lead that was concurrent with uh the onset of uh

widespread vaccination and so the loss of life associated or the improvement in loss of life and birth outcomes

associated with getting the lead out of the population well that’s ascribed to the vaccines by the people that are busy

marketing vaccines and likewise all the work associated with uh water sanitation and and all of that. No,

that’s all true. The first time I to credit where credit’s due as a vaccinologist,

the first time I really encountered that logic was Candace Owens had me on years

ago and she said, you know, we’ve done this deep dive and we’ve looked at this thing and these these infectious diseases go down before the vaccines

come up. Um, and yet we’re told this narrative, right? And of course we’re told this narrative. Yeah.

The polio one’s the nuttier one because when when people are so concerned about polio and polio vaccines and we we’ve cured polio we they’re going to bring back polio if they stop the vaccines.

when I tell them what percentage of polio do you think is asymptomatic and that most people think like none

right it’s 95 to 99% of polio is asymptomatic and then you find out through Suzanne

Humphrey’s work that they were spraying DDT ubiquitously all over the country at the same time absolutely gives you the same exact

symptoms of paralytic polio and then Subsequently, the actual first infections that started occurring in

this country were occurring in rural areas where they spray DDT everywhere. Yeah. So,

one of So, there’s uh if I can kind of throw another log in the fire on that narrative,

one of the cool things that I’m getting to see from my perch at the ACIP is people working at the cutting edge of

modern genetic uh technology investigations about cause and effect and genomic effects. And one of the

things you you talk about this rare incidence of paralytic polio or uh myocarditis.

Okay, myocarditis is rare uh with the vaccine and yet it happens at a significant rate. It happens more in certain populations than other

populations. This was heresy at first and now they were forced to admit it and and uh stay tuned uh later in February.

But uh um there’s a group that had a big grant to look at genetic links associated with risk factors for this.

And strangely halfway through their program during the Biden administration,

all their funding got caught, but they still made a lot of progress and they kind of limped along with volunteer stuff. Modern I mentioned the genome

costs 300 bucks a a genome. These guys have gone through and they’ve identified seven genes that represent uh um high

risk factors for myocarditis after vaccination.

Myocarditis after vaccination by the way was a major side effect associated with the smallox vaccines or one of them. Uh it’s it’s been associated with vaccines

for quite a while. We just kind of haven’t heard about it and it’s particularly bad with these. But there we it it one of the you know trying to continue my theme of it’s not all dark,

right? Uh, one of the things that’s coming out is that if we commit to it and do the research like uh, team

Kennedy is committed to doing um, we may well be able to detect those people that the character genetic characteristics of

those people that might have been at higher risk for say paralytic polio or myocarditis. so that we can have genetic

tests and you can have that test and determine whether you actually have that risk factor. It looks like because of

the dynamics of clinical research and epidemiology in infectious disease that um this kind of application of genetic

diagnostic technology may give us whole new insights into those small populations that that had those uh rare events. Um

you know we know the big picture in in co and the COVID vaccination postvcination uh syndromes of the high-risisk

individuals with obesity and elderly and basically people with a high inflammatory set point. Uh but now we’re

getting down into some of the nuances and I think that that’s you know I talked about some of the dark sides of biotechnology but there’s some real uh

you know bright sides that um uh um offer hope uh and and uh we’ll what

will happen as that kind of starts to roll out is that um manufacturers and

and academic surrogates and others are kind of not going to be able to continue to hide behind these narratives

that they have promoted now for decades because uh the true true is going to

come out. It is going to come out. Um is it going to come out during this administration? No. To do long-term follow-up studies are going to take a

decade. That’s that’s the unfortunate truth. And then we’re going to have a lot of grief around that. How come you haven’t already fill in the blank,

right? Um, but uh it’s going to happen and uh that is another big plus of of

what’s going on right now uh kind of behind the scenes at HHS. Uh hopefully they get a chance to still do it uh

after the midterm and they don’t get hogtied.

But um I’m I’m optimistic that we’re these narratives that have been promoted, these false narratives, we’re going to be able to break them through

doing actual science uh if we’re allowed to do it.

uh and and uh this new technology uh is uh particularly with sequence analysis

um and identification of of risk correlates. The intersection between sequence analysis and epidemiology is

going to really open up uh new understandings about what’s going on in human disease. I’m absolutely convinced what we do about it is that’s a whole

another kettle of fish. this. I mean, we can do the science until the cows come home. The public policy part is wicked hard.

Yeah.

But at least there’s some positive developments.

Yeah. That’s that’s that’s what I want to say is some bright light at the end. There there is all this dark stuff. Yeah.

Uh and and we have to we have to allow ourselves to see it.

It’s you see it and you get the reaction like you did. Uh I I don’t want to see that. That’s too much.

It’s too overwhelming. It’s too scary. But we look away at our own risk.

And um and and we have this tendency to say it’s all dark. Uh you know that we

have these uh individuals I mentioned Yuval Harrari uh um you know believing that man is God now. We no longer need

God. Uh we have become gods. We have become as gods. Does he actually say that? Yeah.

Really? Well, but isn’t he talking sort of metaphorically about our technological potential?

I I don’t know. I don’t know how to I don’t know how to discern the meaning. He’s a very demonized guy.

He says a lot of dark stuff. And uh I think so.

Um you you probably read the B book. Did you interview the author of of Yeah. The Sapiens? Did you read the author of Dark Aon?

No. No, I’ve never read that.

So that’s so that’s talking. This is talking more about kind of the Silicon Valley culture that’s pushing

transhumanism and how how um integrally it’s become

uh involved in this space. I mean what I I don’t have I don’t p around with Elon

and not to say he is or or whomever you want to talk about in that space.

That’s those I’m that’s not my pay grade. Mhm.

Uh but my understanding and and I read these things maybe they’re also maybe that’s al also propaganda that that a lot of these people um of let’s say the

Bill Gates cast and the younger ones associated with that uh would are advocates for a world in which they are

able to upload their um avatar consciousness in a digital space and live forever. That’s Ray Kerszswwell, right?

That’s I you Sounds like you know more.

I mean, you’re the you’re the uh um uh UAP uh guy here, which by the way is another fascinating domain that I’m learning more about more about.

It’s bizarre. Um that’s a rabbit hole you go down like, oh, this isn’t empty. This is not an empty rabbit hole.

There’s a lot of money behind this. And it seems like there’s been a lot of black funding and business. Yeah, business. A lot of business,

defense contractors involved. Yeah.

And it seems like there’s some inventions that sort of emerged out of nowhere. that supposedly are connected to back engineering programs. And so for

so I’m I’m now uh I’m now of of the

belief that there exists a capability that transcends

uh uh physics as we know it let’s say Einsteinian physics uh and is more aligned with uh Hawkings

physics uh that um we can’t we don’t comprehend right

Uh, and it has to do with extremely high energy systems.

And, uh, I I having I mean, I’ve had some of these guys because I’m now known

worldwide as a nutcase, I guess, and and conspiracy theorist. I’ve had him on my farm, uh, you know, staying at our at

our guest house and and, um, shooting the bull and me trying to understand their world and what they’re seeing and

what they’ve experienced and and observed and the information.

Um, and uh, I’m I’m of there’s a lot of different models for what the hell’s going on here. And maybe it’s all us,

right? That’s one model. It’s all us uh,

with with secret technology. Um, that’s one model for the what do they call it? Tic tacs.

And uh I’m I’m increasingly convinced by the logic that there is a physics beyond the physics

that we know. That is the physics of extremely high energy systems.

And in high energy systems, a lot of the rules about motion and uh and uh

transportation and matter uh and the ability to cross between matter states

that is repeatedly observed uh and reported by responsible people uh military folks that have, you know,

strong disincentives, right,

for saying this stuff. And yet still they’re saying that’s what I saw. Okay.

And transmedium devices that can fly and then go underwater as fast as they’re flying and and no ripples.

Yeah. Um so I I one of the models of that is that this has to do with uh

having some extremely high energy source uh in a very small package.

And uh is that possible?

We’re now moving into a new fusion world, right? We’re we’re talking about these microfusion reactors that are

going to be powering our data centers all over the world transforming the whole energy, right? I mean, there’s

this logic in crossing over into the the economics bitcoin or kind of space. Uh

there’s this logic that it all comes down to energy.

uh energy is is the one uh thing that uh fuels economic development and and

everything around us. And uh there I’m I’m not a physicist, but I listen and

learn and and it sounds to me like these uh micro reactors and the the technology that was involved strangely in this assassination.

Remember that bizarre assassination in in Boston that happened? Um there was two competing companies. Okay. Um

there’s something Yeah. there’s something going on there that’s uh really transformational and if it

matures remember Trump is invested in this in a big way uh that had to do with uh um him kind of leveraging truth

social in a strange way remember uh he if if we if we emerge into a future

within my lifetime probably of these micronukes

uh as energy sources decentralized first driven by the tech bros because they want to have their data centers but

then suddenly we have as that matures and the patents come off we have the ability to put uh power generation in

very small packages wherever we want in the world. Suddenly the entire landscape of economic activity and the future of

humanity is transformed like that. And that’s just the beginning. If we push that technology, we may find ourselves

in some space where we have the ability to produce extremely large amounts of

energy in a very small package and and use that. You know, of course it’ll be weaponized. Use that for a variety of things.

Uh but um I I think the guys that are speculating about these phenomena being

driven by the existence of of almost point sources of ex of unlimited energy

functionally uh may make sense out of things that otherwise are really hard to wrap your head around.

Well, we’re in for a very interesting future one way or another.

Yes. Yeah. And it and it doesn’t have to be dark and demonic.

Hopefully not if we let these bastards have their way. What is this, Jamie?

Make a small correction. That video I showed you apparently isn’t real. Not a real company. Made by a Berlin filmmaker

in 2022. Went viral. I found it in a New York Post article that kind of said it was real.

Uh but but there are plans to do something.

I was going to say which is a little weirder. It says at the bottom, this is getting confused with a pregnancy robot that was announced in China in 2025.

This though apparently also is not real.

Also, uh the pregnancy robot is not real.

Yeah, it was a they named a scientist that was working on it. Not a real It’s not a real person.

Look at that. That’s so the company working on it. Nonetheless,

they are working on our that are I we’re we’re going to come out. So, so see if you can find the since you’re so

good at Googling or whatever you’re doing, um see if you can find the uh images of uh this uh artificial womb and I believe it’s a lamb.

Yeah. No, we’ve seen the lamb before,

but I’m just saying that the the people thing is the factory thing. Oh, well, that was obviously AI. I mean,

that was transparent. It wasn’t even a real company that was doing it. It was It’s synthetic images. I don’t want to give out fake news. That’s all.

God forbid. We might get banned.

Well, Robert, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. And uh it was nice for you to come back and under less hostile terms in the world.

Well, it wasn’t hostile then. Yeah, it was the world.

The I think your message was a lot more hostile in its the way it was received,

you know, like you were received in a hostile way. I don’t think this one’s going to be hostile. I think uh pretty much everything that you said most

people are aware of now and then the other things that you’re saying they’re are not far-fetched at all and I think there’s a lot more people that are more

open to receiving information like that now than ever before and some of it can be attributed to you.

That’s kind um uh let’s say to the community.

Yeah. uh and and of which I’m a a vehicle have been at times.

A lot of the stuff that I shared with you back then was the consequence of a community that I was embedded in of

other physicians and scientists, many of whom were primary care practitioners.

And I was I was attending weekly meetings with these people. And I had frontline knowledge of what they were

seeing and experiencing. And I had frontline knowledge of the physicians that I was collaborating with uh at Ditra of what they were experiencing. I

was never managing COVID patients except myself, but I knew what others were experiencing and you gave me an

opportunity to give to share their voice through me and I thank you for that. It was it was a moment in time and I think

we did good. Uh but by God they came at us. It was wild.

Well, thank you, sir. Thank you very much. I really appreciate you being here. It was a lot of fun. All right. Bye, everybody.